The Funny Farm

Some thoughts from someone who's been where you are and heard the same thing from family & friends...

For one thing, you might not want to wrestle with this now. It's a big thorny philosophical question that seem a lot more depressing and hopeless when you're feeling down anyway.

That said, I'm sure you're still going to be wondering about it, so...

The generalization that "people don't respect nice people" is only true for nice people who equate niceness with letting other people have their way all the time. Agreeable nice people (and I'm one) tend to fall into the trap of letting strong-willed and/or domineering people call all the shots. It's easier that way, and it just doesn't seem "nice" to argue with people.

But you can be nice and pleasant and agreeable without being a mark. The key is gaining a measure of self-respect and learning to identify and avoid the sharks. If you have an adequate regard for yourself, you'll be able to put your foot down when you see someone trying to take advantage of you. Learn, as the cliche goes, to disagree without being disagreeable. There is a difference, and it's crucial to understand it.

As for the fortress of solitude... don't wall yourself off from people, but don't be afraid to step back and tend to yourself for a while. If you'd, say, broken a leg in a car crash, you wouldn't be going around and pretending nothing had happened. You'd be taking it easy and recuperating. Just because the pain is emotional doesn't make it less real.

Take time for yourself when you need it. Take long walks and let the thoughts tumble around in your brain. And don't beat yourself up if you can't answer all your questions right now. If you need to scream, scream. Do whatever you need to in order to heal. And don't do it all at once.

And remember you've got a lot of friends out here in Blogistan, and even if we haven't met you personally, we're still looking out for you.

Peace.

No, I don't think it's fair of you to say that at all; going from the story you told so far, which is what you asked readers to do and is really all I can use at this point, I think you're just hurting and at this point you want to generalize. If I go around saying, "Men don't like nice women, they are only out for one thing," would you think I was funny? I didn't think so either. If it's wrong for us to generalize, it's wrong for you too.

As for the question of women not liking nice guys, that is bullshit. You may say to yourself, "I'm a nice guy, I got hurt, I guess women don't want men to be nice" but that doesn't ring true if you look at it. First of all, I've met some guys who rate themselves as extra-good but never stop to think about how the other person looked at them. If a man can't admit to some of the things his girlfriend may have said about him--such as he may have faults and flaws, just like she does--then he will go through life thinking of himself as perfect, and not understand what she couldn't accept about him. In other words, men, and women too, sometimes don't see their own problems and don't see what may have ticked off the other person; they think they were always nice, they don't accept that the other person may have bailed for a reason. It's hard to see oneself with a critical eye.

Also, how many women have you ever met who actually say, "Please be mean and annoying to me, I just love that"? Do they exist? Are they outside of mental hospitals?

If everyone loves putting up with everyone else's crap, why is there such a high divorce rate? Think about it.

There are *not* only nasty people in the world. I think you make a serious error in extrapolating your recent experience to all women. I don't sit here making predictions about "all men." I don't know all men. You don't know all women. Because you are mad right now, even if you have a right to be mad at that particular person, you may start to have some kind of grudge against women in general, at least as far as your love life is concerned, and then you wander into bad-talk-show-host territory. It is not right to develop a double standard, where you can be judgemental about women but insist that all men are sweet and noble, just because of what's going on in your life right now. You act like nobody ever had a breakup. I did. Pretty much everyone does, and many times, too. Don't be a hypocrite and don't have a chip on your shoulder. That isn't fair either. I am sorry about what happened to you, I hope you will recover, but to turn the corner into a bitter attitude is just wrong and I hope that is not where you wind up.

Thanks for both of your comments.

D.R., I understand your point of view. I do not have a chip on my shoulder but rather my eyes are a little more open right now. I was obviously making a generalization, and said so in the post as well. I also said that this was not me making these statements - others have been telling me that I am sometimes too nice of a guy since well before my last relationship. I am hurting - but that's not all I'm up to right now. I usually generalize about many things, and at this point I am questioning this particular generalization (which I have not been able to believe is true lo these many years). And the question is not whether women respect nice guys or not - it is whether people respect nice people. I am not saying "I'm a nice guy, I got hurt, I guess women don't want men to be nice". I am trying to understand what drives people to think that it's okay for them to not respect nice people. In no way do I consider my behavior to be too nice. I try to get as much feedback on that sort of thing as possible (I have been asked not to talk about the situation, but I feel like it's okay to say here that the problem in this regard IMHO was that I was not given enough feedback - I wasn't told what I was doing that wasn't so nice, and if I wasn't being nice I was not given much indication of that) and I certainly don't think I was always nice, or that there was no reason behind all of this. I am not saying that there are only nasty people out there, but rather why do people get attracted to (what they consider) nasty? And I would say that most people should be concerned about building up those grudges you speak of. But I think that works both ways - guys get grudges built up against guys, too, and pre-judge their fellow men in that way. I'm reasonably certain that women do that, too, and so I would say that the problem there could tinge all your relationships if you don't recognize it taking place. I don't think you need to be specific about romantic/love relationships, either. I do think that my recent experience has caused this particular question (which I guess could be summed up as can you be too nice, and should you be careful about when and where you are nice?) to be wondered about . And I really appreciate your concern that I don't become a bitter old man because of this - it's one of my main concerns, too.

Fred, thanks for the kind words. I don’t agree with some of your points – I am not particularly domineering, but I don’t let strong-willed people run willy-nilly over what’s going on. Although the drive of strong-willed people to get what they want done is also a form of not being nice… I think I definitely need work on the self-esteem angle and I really like the suggestions for dealing with things. One of the biggest problems that I have been facing in this situation is that I am all alone and have to figure out what happened with no help from anyone else. My thinking is not at its’ best IMHO, and I question my own judgements now more than ever. I really appreciate hearing from the friends out on the net that I have gained over the years. And I have recently been a bit out of touch with family and friends due to the relationship being such a large focus of my life. I tried to get the two to commingle, but it doesn’t seem to have worked out too well (wry grin).

Anyways,… thanks again to both of you for your comments. I appreciate the feedback…