The Funny Farm

Hey Bro,

It was good seein U on the weekend; Caribana was wild and life-filled as usual!

I checked out the Church of Reality; interesting, though to me it seems somewhat sophomoric, with a bit of a "head-in-the-sand" mentality. For example, I was lol at the quote "Israel is no different than any other country" ... well, no, not true. Let me count the ways ...

Still, seems more logical than scientology (vehemently anti-science) and the most oxymoronic group, Christian Scientists, which are neither Christian (belief) nor scientists (knowledge).

Keep rotating the fields at the farm here, and be sure to leave some ground fallow, for the children.

Peace and Blessings,

Yuya Joe

Posted by: Yuya Joseph at August 7, 2006 11:29 AM

Hey Joe!

Right back at ya - it was good to see you and yours, too.

I would like to take issue with some of your comments regarding the Church of Reality, however:

I can understand, and even agree to some extent, about it being sophomoric. I would also think that that should be expected of a belief system started from scratch within the last ten years.

I would question your 'head in the sand' statement, however. That statement sorta runs counter to the teachings espoused by the Realists - as far as I can see, they are particularly focused on keeping their heads out of the sand and trying to find what is real. And I would challenge you to provide an example within their writings that exhibits the sort of mentality that you ascribe to them..

I would also ask that you truly do count the ways that you can objectively prove that Israel (the physical country itself) is different than any other country, and spell them out so all can take note of them. Israel, like any other nation, is different from the others in that it is in a different physical location upon the globe, and that it has its' own unique history and historical culture (and, possibly, as some other places on the globe do, its' own unique species native to that place and no other). But (and I am sorry if this seems to be a somewhat unpopular opinion these days) it is just another piece of land on the planet. I would ask for proof should you claim that it is no different from any other set of arbitrary lines that are portioning the globe that have been drawn by human hands.

Posted by: (: Tom :) at August 7, 2006 06:29 PM

hey bro,

sure, i'm up for the challenge regarding Israel, but let me first preface my comments by saying that I do think the Church of Reality is cool, and truly hope it doesn't become powerful and corrupt, eg. "unreal" ...

here are just a few reasons why Israel is in fact different than any other country on our planet, a home i lovingly call our "spinning ball of blue, green and brown fun in the sky":

- this land is Sacred to Christians, Jews and Muslims; no other land is

- the Jews were driven into Diaspora at least twice, once in Babylon and Persia (circa 600-450 BC) and once in Europe (70 ad to 1948 ad); three times if you count the sojurn in Egypt as an exile (I don't, I look at it as a formative stage of the faith and the people); is there any other nation on earth where the people returned after being away for 1,900 years, claiming God has given them the land for all eternity?

- the Second World War was fought partly to save the Jews from extermination by Hitler and Mussolini, and also to protect hard-won freedoms in the West; Israel was created in 1948 partly as a result of the devastation caused by that war

- Israel is surrounded by many peoples who seek her total destruction, and even in nations that have peace treaties with Israel (eg. Egypt, Jordan), there remain many citizens who object to their own government's tolerance for those of the Judaic persuasion. Is there any other nation on the planet who is surrounded by hostile enemies who seek the destruction of the country and the death and suffering of her people?

- Jerusalem, aaaahhhhh Jerusalem, Holiest City to Jews and Christians, 3rd Holiest (behind Mecca and Medina, ahead of Harar, Ethiopia) City to Muslims. Jeru-Salem means "To Teach-Peace" and the lessons learned from this troubled region are to be a foreshadow of a wider global peace. If Jerusalem can be shared by Israelis and Palestinians, by Jews, Muslims and Christians, then there truly is hope for all humanity. If not, we could be headed for even bigger troubles. So, back to the point of why Israel is different, I ask you to honestly consider this: Is there any other nation on earth whose capital is not only claimed by two different peoples (Israelis and Palestinians), but is also a central focus of worship of many faiths, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahia and Rastafari?

Those are 5 reasons why Israel IS different, I am sure there are many more, and any student of geopolitics knows that its uniqueness underlies many of the regional tensions.

The reason I went straight for that link on the www.ChurchOfReality.org page is that even the title (Why Israel's Invasion of Lebanon Is Wrong) seemed preachy, but that would have been okay if the article had been an in-depth analysis of the Hezbollah conflict, or an explanation of why this war was contrary to Israel's longer-term interests. Instead, more Israel-bashing, something that is to me a slippery slope; on the way down that slide there is a lot of anti-semitism (read: Jew-hating), and coddling of cultures that are filled with hate towards other faiths (including atheists), and sell 11 and 12 year old girls into slavery as third and fourth "wives". Isreal is the closest thing the Middle East has to the freedoms and dignity we find in Canada, USA, Europe, South America, Japan and other freedom-loving nations. There are times when I hate the governments of Israel and the United States, but I would never hate the people or the nations themelves.

Peace Bro,

Yuya

Posted by: Yuya Joseph at August 9, 2006 11:27 PM

Thanks for the response, Joe.

As for the points you made regarding how Israel is different, points 1, 2, and 5 boil down to because my invisible Sky Fairy said so. Points 3 and 4 are not unique to Israel in history; many lands have been treated in this manner, and many peoples have been tried to be wiped off the face of the earth.

Even if everyone on the globe subscribes to a particular form of religious insanity, that does not make that religious insanity reality-based. And it especially does not make any form of superstition into an objective reason that one particular piece of land is different from any other.

There are lots of places that are sacred to lots of people. There have been lots of places that people have fought over because their Invisible Cloud Being told them it was their special place. Plus, if I don't believe in their deity, what difference does any of their claims about what their deity make? If I said that I deserved to own all of Richmond Hill because the voices in my head told me it was mine by divine right, would that make Richmond Hill different and unique too?

Many wars in many lands during history have taken place in order to exterminate other peoples. Many lands have been cobbled together by drawing lines on a map (usually by other people than the ones who will have to live in those new nations). Especially in that area of the world. In this regard, Israel is no different than a number of its' neighbors, nevermind the rest of the world.

I would say that there is no nation today that is surrounded by enemies actively trying to destroy it. I can see a number of nations who have enemies on every continent today - I live in one. But there have been such nations in the past, and no doubt there will be others in the future - as long as people use their religious beliefs as justification to try and force others to do what they want. So this is not an objective reality-based difference in my eyes (other than the reality that there are many sick people in the world who let the voices in their head give them a rationale to destroy others).

As for Jerusalem: there have been other cities which have had a divided capital. Berlin and Constantinople stick out in my mind right away. But you have inserted religious belief in your argument once again, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone can consider any place their holy place, and it shouldn't make a hill of beans' worth of difference in the real world. And it should never be a reason that person A feels justified to tell person B that they can't live in a particular spot unless they share the same superstitious rituals as evreybody else in the area.

Posted by: (: Tom :) at August 11, 2006 08:05 AM

Doubting Thom,

Maybe you should re-read my comments; Israel is different, and you dodged all my requests to name a country in a similar situation. The reason you get so defensive and evasive in your rebuttal is that you believe that I am saying Israel is superior, and I never wrote that. I love Palestine and Palestinians, Lebanon and Lebanese etc. just as much as I love Israel and Israelis. If you had mentioned Palestine as a country that is similar to Israel, I would have had to agree with you. I am seeking commentary on my regional peace plan for Israel and Palestine, and welcome any imput from you and your readers.

As for injecting religious belief into the argument, I think I made it pretty clear that even atheists such as the COR brethren and sistren should be aware that there are people determined to eliminate their influence and lives ... and there are also allies who believe in their rights.

Democratic, pluralistic nations such as Canada, India, the UK and many others incl. the USA allow people such as you and I to speak and write freely. In many nations on this planet we would have difficulty publishing our own versions of the perceived truth. The "West" may just be a lesser evil than the alternatives offered by Sunni and Shia extremists, but like many of the Islamic faithful who have emigrated to our shores to escape persecution and oppression, I will choose less evil rather than more evil whenever I can.

The Google philosophy of "Do No Evil" hasn't entered the political world yet; maybe the Church of Reality could give birth to a fully secular international political movement, the Do No Evil Alliance ;)

let us start another thread on one of your newer posts ... there are many topics of interest to Americans, Canadians and people around the world that I and I can jaw jaw over ...

Posted by: Yuya at August 13, 2006 10:48 AM